Speaker: Greg Sanders

Passage: Revelation 7:9-17

LET SCRIPTURE INTERPRET SCRIPTURE

If you have your Bibles, let’s open up to Revelation chapter 7. I think early on, when I was like fifteen or sixteen years old, I became fascinated with Revelation. My grandfathers were both pastors, so church was never really an option, but I had this interest in the Book of Revelation. It was a book that I had never experienced being taught. It was just sitting as this end cap that nobody really talked about.

And so, I was like, I want to dig in. I went to my youth pastor, and he handed me a book called The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey. My theology was shaped from that moment not from the Scriptures but from an interpretation of the Scriptures.

I say that for a reason: I think that really encapsulates how our eschatology has been built for many of us. Often, it’s shaped by someone’s interpretation instead of the text.

When we, as a team, prayed and felt like we were going to go into the Book of Revelation, I threw out this statement. It’s kind of my gift to throw out giant statements that I have no idea what they mean, but they sound really good.

So, I threw out this statement, and I just said, You know, I think we should approach this like we’ve approached every other book: with the discipline to let the Scriptures teach themselves. This means we have to let go of what we think they mean before we begin.

I was not remotely prepared for how much my theology was going to be adjusted as we studied this book. Maybe you are with me in that, and some of you might be in a group going, I don’t really know where we’re going here. This is terrifying. 

Again, we’re inviting the Scriptures to teach the Scriptures. We’re asking ourselves what the church has historically believed so we can formulate what we think the Scriptures are teaching. 

Here we are in chapter 7. I don’t enjoy teaching very much. How many have ever seen the movie Transformers? There’s a scene in it where a math teacher, who is just this nerdy guy with a squeaky voice, gets to the end of the class and says, Pop quiz tomorrow; sleep and fear. That’s teaching for me.

In a nutshell, I don’t enjoy it, but ironically I’ve been really excited to dig into this passage. It’s been challenging me a lot, and I think it’s challenging us as a family. So, let’s dig in. Let’s go to Revelation 7:1.

REVELATION 7:9-17

“After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on earth or sea or against any tree. I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to damage earth and sea, saying, ‘Do not damage the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have marked the servants of our God with a seal on their foreheads.’ And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the people of Israel:

From the tribe of Judah twelve thousand sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand sealed.

After this I looked, and there was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, robed in white, with palm branches in their hands. They cried out in a loud voice, saying, ‘Salvation belongs to our God who is seated on the throne and to the Lamb!’  And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, singing, ‘Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.’

Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, ‘Who are these, robed in white, and where have they come from?’ I said to him, ‘Sir, you are the one who knows.’ Then he said to me, ‘These are they who have come out of the great ordeal; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. That is why they are standing in front of the throne of God, serving him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will live among them and shelter them. They will never again be hungry or thirsty. They will be fully protected from the scorching noontime heat. For the Lamb who stands in front of the throne will be their shepherd. He will lead them to the springs of life-giving water, and God will wipe away all their tears”.

Let’s pray.

Holy Spirit, You are the Guide. You’re the Teacher. It’s a privilege and an honor to study the Scriptures together. 

We ask that You would bring illumination and insight to our hearts, Lord. That anything that is said today that’s not of You would be forgotten, and that, on the contrary, the things that are in Your heart for us would be rooted and grounded in us. That they would go deep and become good seeds.

Jesus, we’re on one journey, and it’s to look like You. So, would You reveal to us today the aspects we need to see to become more like You? We love You, and we honor You. In Jesus’ name, amen.

HEARING VS SEEING

I want to begin by focusing our attention on a few phrases and concepts in the passage. We’re just going to move through, grab a few phrases, and then try to extrapolate some truth from them.

I want to first focus on what John sees versus what John hears. In verse 4, it says, “And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the people of Israel”. Later, in verse 9, it says, “I saw a vast crowd, too great to count, from every nation and tribe and people and language, standing in front of the throne and before the Lamb”.

I want to point out that John heard one thing, but what he saw in reality was very different. Why point that out? Because I believe that truth is a really common occurrence in the Kingdom for all of us. We hear, but understanding doesn’t always come until the Lord reveals it. How many of you have heard the Lord say something and rushed headlong into a movement that you only discovered later had nothing to do with what He actually said? Why? Because you interpreted it.

We see John hearing and seeing something very different here, and it should be cautionary for us. Paul will challenge us in Corinthians by saying, “We see darkly, and we know in part”. What does that mean? It’s to be a humility index so that none of us are so arrogant as to believe, I have the Word of the Lord. Instead, we should embrace, This is what I feel like the Lord said, and then allow the Lord to bring revelation to what that means.

I would love to challenge you when you hear a word from the Lord. I’m a big proponent of spending time with the Lord and a big proponent of getting the voice of the Lord. I’m also a big proponent of once you get it, you ask the Lord, What am I supposed to do with that?

All too often, we catch a glimpse or hear something, and then we run into what we think obedience looks like instead of having this humility. I just want to point out that in this narrative, there’s a very clear picture of hearing one thing and seeing something different.

A VAST, UNENDING CROWD

The second concept is that what John actually sees is a vast crowd too great to count. Here’s why I want to call this out. I think this is the main point of the Book of Revelation, hidden in this little phrase “a vast crowd too great to count”. I think Jesus is revealing something to John that was intended to fuel the rest of his days.

What was He revealing? He’s teaching him to hope in grace. What do I mean? Think about this: John turns around and sees a vast multitude too great to count. He’s being taught firsthand, with his eyes, to absolutely trust the ability of the Lamb to save humanity. He’s being taught, just by what he saw, to trust in the grace of the Lamb.

You see, John believed in Jesus. We know that. This is John, the one whom Jesus loved. We know that there’s a deep relationship. I just don’t think he had any real understanding of how big Jesus really was. John is shown a picture of people from every nation, tribe, and language.

Consider this with me for a second: John, at that moment in Revelation, may have been seeing a number around the Throne that was bigger than the population of the earth at that time. We have no idea what the number was. All we know is it was a myriad too big to count. He has no language for it.

Can you imagine being on the earth in John’s time, being translated into the heavens for this vision, and then seeing a number bigger than all of humanity? I bet John was seeing

people he didn’t even know existed. Had John ever seen a Mayan? Think about the population of the earth. Think about every nation, every tribe, every people. John is seeing all of it.

We have no idea exactly what John was seeing, but when we read this, we have to be careful not to measure it based on what we understand. All we know is it was blowing John’s mind. It was causing him to rethink things, and the people he saw were shouting this declaration of their own salvation.

So, here’s John hearing not the response of the people he knew, the disciples, his friends, or maybe even the people he passed. He’s hearing all of humanity responding to the Lamb. 

Why does that matter? If I’m John, a church guy, a pastor, and I’ve just gone through chapters 1, 2, and 3 hearing about how amazing my people are not, I’d imagine that seeing this was doing something to his heart. I would imagine there was encouragement in this vision. 

A PICTURE OF HOPE AND ENCOURAGEMENT

I was excited to teach chapter 7 because I think 7 has historically been this foreboding, dark thing that causes us to believe we better be careful; just a few of us will be saved. Actually, I think the point of the passage is to encourage us to trust the Lamb. And I think this would have naturally redefined John’s understanding and scope of the Kingdom.

So, the elder asks John a question: “‘Who are these who are clothed in white, and where do they come from?’” How many are aware that he didn’t actually need John’s response? I

would caution you on this. When the Lord asks you a question, He’s rarely looking for your answer. He’s usually asking you a question to clarify your perspective.

This question was for the purpose of educating John. He’s being shown and taught this promise of what grace is going to accomplish. Just think about it as a moment. We like to fast forward and see John through the lens of us now. Consider that John hung out with Jesus, watched Him get crucified, and has been preaching this Gospel that feels a little strange. 

Can you imagine being the first person to say that this guy died, He rose again, and all humanity will be saved through Him? Can you imagine being in the first twelve, thirty, or one hundred people who were going to populate that message? I imagine John got a couple of crazy stares here and there.

Sin in humanity is remedied through Jesus. I think this is what John was seeing. I think the vast number he saw was a tutorial in and of itself, a promise of what was to come, and it was to define John’s theology.

Think about what we read in chapters 1, 2, and 3. John is embroiled in churches that are already having infighting between Gentiles and Jews. There’s already a spirit of elitism that’s cropping up. There’s already an “us versus them” mentality that’s going on within the churches.

I think the elder’s language is revealing; it shows the goal of the message. He points to John and says, They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb. They are standing in front of the Throne. They are serving Him day and night. They’re in His temple. He’s saying to John, They’re all saved by the Lamb.

I think sometimes we dehumanize the text. We’re good at stripping away humanity from it and making it very sterile. I see a couple of human elements that I want us to consider. 

Have you ever considered that John might have been losing hope in his own church? Imagine you as a pastor hearing all those indictments, as a leader hearing all those indictments, as the one who built those churches, thinking, Man, what a failure.

Maybe John was wondering if this Kingdom stuff was real. Have you ever wondered that? Am I the only guy in the room who sometimes asks, Is this stuff real? If that scares you, I’m so sorry. 

He’s living in a church full of immorality and chaos. Think about the church at large over just the last year alone. Story after story after story of leaders being taken down in a scandal. We live in a church full of immorality and chaos. I bet John, like us at times, was wondering, Does this even work? There are people who are in it, and they’re in it for the wrong reasons. They’re in it for money, or they’re in it for power. Does this even work? 

Have you ever considered that the same John who got this revelation is the same John who got the revelation, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son”? He’s the one who heard it. I wonder if he was doubting those words. Maybe he was doubting what Jesus had said about the strength of God’s love because I would imagine when he heard that phrase, for God so loved the world, that he was hoping there was finally a remedy for all this chaos.

ALIGN YOURSELF WITH JESUS

What we do know is this: what John sees in this passage is a fresh picture of the magnitude of what is going on through the death and resurrection of Jesus, and that Jesus is incredibly capable of saving humanity.

So, John is encouraged, reminded, and maybe even taught about the significance of the cross and just how powerful Jesus is. Why does that matter? Because it should cause you and I, each of us, to shout in celebration for the grace that we’ve been given. We’ve been washed in the blood. We are now standing before the Throne. We have been invited to serve, to come alongside Him, to partner with Him to achieve His goals.

We, together, are His temple. I love that it’s added in the Book of Revelation that they’re in His temple. What does that mean? They’re in the body of Christ. Paul will define it, saying, The body of Christ, the people of God, are now the temple of God. I love that he doesn’t say they just got saved and hung out alone.

He’s talking about the fact that they’ve been rooted and grounded into the ecclesia, into the church, into the people of God; that’s where they spend their lives. We look at this, and it is right for us to be excited about being washed in the blood. It is right for us to know that we stand before the Throne of God.

If you’re here right now and you’re thinking, I don’t really know if God wants to talk to me, let me help you understand that, because of Jesus, He does. You’re like, But what about my sin? Your sin doesn’t separate you from the love of God. Your sin is just dealt with by the love of God.

You stand before the Throne of God because of Jesus’ work, and you’ve been invited now to serve, to be with the people of God. If you’re here and you haven’t aligned with Jesus, I would invite you to consider changing that.

When I say aligned, I don’t mean you haven’t been to church. Aligning with Jesus means this: I made a decision. Not my will, but His. Now I’m going to lay down everything about me, and I’m going to follow Him. I’m going to lay down my thought process. I’m going to lay down the way I’ve been living, and I’m going to give it to Him and say, I’m just going to choose Your life instead.

But if you haven’t aligned like that with Him, this picture should exemplify His desire for you to join around His throne and for you to be with Him in that situation. This is not about being a good person or a bad person. What John sees is the end game, and I think he is baffled by something that is so much bigger than he thought it was.

BEWARE WRONG THEOLOGY

The last thing is, if we don’t understand this picture as the point of the passage, we can get into some really strange ideas and beliefs. Let me explain.

There’s a phrase that shows up in what we read earlier in chapter 7, where the angels are given the power to injure the land. Another angel comes along and says, Wait, don’t do that until we’ve put a seal on the people of God’s heads. John shifts from declaring what he heard, which was 144,000, and he turns and sees a far greater number. 

Recently, Dr Ian Paul and Pastor Dustin began to explain to us this understanding of how important and symbolic certain numbers are in the Bible. I just want to give us a recap of the difference between what John heard and what he saw.

So, 12 is a square number; therefore, 12 by 12 equals 144. Welcome back to fifth-grade arithmetic. Ok, 12 by 12 equals 144 and it’s a square number. The number 1,000, scripturally, is a number that defines limitlessness. It’s a number without limitation. That’s how it’s used in the Scriptures. A day is as 1,000 years. What does that mean? Is it exactly 1,000 years, or is it like sometimes when you say to your spouse, You’re taking forever to get ready? Were they taking forever, or were they just taking longer than what you thought was the allotted time?

It’s hyperbole in how it’s used throughout the Scripture. Some of us get really uncomfortable with that. What if it’s not? I’m not saying it couldn’t be exact. I’m just saying it seems like the witness of Scripture throughout pitches it this way.

John hears 144,000 from the tribes of Israel, yet sees an uncountable number. Put this together. I believe the right and correct understanding is that this passage reveals the people of God are holy and pure because of the grace of Jesus, that square number, and they’re expanding without measurement. I think it’s what John saw: an expansion. It was way more than 144,000 because, had it been either one of those numbers, John already knew how to count there. He says it’s a number beyond counting, beyond measure.

By not considering this juxtaposition of what John sees versus what he hears as a key interpretive lens, we see a couple of really strange eschatological views begin in the last two hundred to five hundred years.

One belief states that the passage reveals only 144,000 people will be saved. If you’re familiar with the Jehovah’s Witness, that’s their core doctrine. There’s a second belief that this passage reveals only 144,000 people will be saved from Israel. 

I like math. Let’s do math. Currently, there are 7.958 billion people on the earth. If belief A is true, only 144,000 of them will be saved, that is .000018% of the population, or eighteen millions of a percent. Currently, there are 7 million Jewish people on the earth. If belief B is true, 144,000 translates to .00917% of that population, or seventeen-thousandths of a percent.

If this passage actually reveals either of those points of view, we have a grace problem. If this is what it reveals, then it reveals a plan to save humanity that was not in any way competent.

First, it reveals a truth that is highly contrary to everything we learn about the heart of God in Scripture. Second, it leads people to elitism and fear, and neither of those were in the teachings of Jesus. Lastly, it reveals that the grace of God is not limitless. It actually has a limit.

Can I just challenge us? We have to learn to build our theology on who He is, not on a strange interpretation that we may not understand. You see, Israel knew His actions, but not His ways. This is what Psalms will declare in Jeremiah. Yahweh Himself will challenge the people of God to boast in knowing who He was, of His love is unfailing, and not in knowing what He did. That’s in chapter 9, verse 24, if you want to look it up.

Here’s what I’d recommend: when we come in contact with dumb theology that paints our King into a picture the Scriptures don’t teach, that says something about Him that He doesn’t say about Himself, we just smile and ignore it. We know that He’s amazing, kind, and without limit. 

IN CONCLUSION

Understanding chapter 7 correctly reveals a really beautiful message. The Lamb wins. The cross conquers. Faith in Him is rightly placed. I would submit that we view this passage through the lens of grace. Humanity is being saved, and we are to partner with His heart to see all saved, not wonder about some number being met. 

Pray for it, work for it, live for it. We’re secure in Him and simply invited to carry His nature everywhere we go. So, worship like it, live like it, and love like it. Jesus wins. Grace wins. The church wins. 

Put a smile on, be proud to be His kid, and go love hell out of each other. Around His Throne is a myriad of people who all have the same story: I once was lost, but now I’m found. I was blind, but now I see. I don’t believe our Father, in any way, shape, or form, has a desire that anyone should perish. I think His answer is, Whosoever may come. If we ever believe anything that fights those two things, we’ve bought into a theology that undermines the character of God. 

My hope is that you leave here today going, All right, this thing works. Let’s go. I’m betting John went back to pastoring saying, You guys, come on. This thing is rad. It works. People are going to get saved. The world’s going to be changed. Maybe if we just adopt that mindset, we show up at work a little differently. We show up going, You know what? Grace wins. This isn’t just a belief set. This is actually the plan of God for your life, and I’m going to love you in a way that you ask me, Why?

Let me pray for us.

Jesus, we love You. Lord. I love being reminded that grace wins, that You win. I’ve made You too small in my eyes, so be magnified, O Lord. Lord, I think we make You too small. We make grace too small.

Would You be magnified in our eyes today? Would the cross be magnified in our eyes today so that we would one more time get excited about how big and how sure Your plan really is? We love You, and we honor You. May Your face shine upon us. In Jesus’ name, amen.